Overseer Yisrayl Hawkins’ LIVE Interview with Nancy Grace

Ms. Grace: To Mr. Hawkins, I have with me several charges that you are facing including promoting bigamy, bigamy. I understand that there are charges of child labor as well. Children kept out of school and forced to work in the fields, in your butter manufacturing and many different areas within your compound. How do you respond to those charges sir?

Overseer: The only thing that’s taking place here, really, is persecution of a religion. That’s the old--oldest religion on the face of the earth. Now if any church in Abilene would have--would teach agriculture, you know, it would be classified as agriculture. But if we have hands-on training in The House of Yahweh and we teach agriculture, it’s child labor. Its--this is the way they…

Ms. Grace: Ok

Overseer: …have twisted things around. To make The House of Yahweh look…

Ms. Grace: Well, Mr. Hawkins

Overseer: …look evil.

Ms. Grace: Mr. Hawkins, there’s a big difference…

Overseer: Nancy, this was prophesied.

Ms. Grace: Hold on, before we get into your prophecies

Overseer: No, no.

Ms. Grace: --I have a question. Having children work in the fields from 8:00 in the morning till well in the afternoon and not go to school is not the same as taking a home economics class, sir.

Overseer: But, I’m telling you this is not true. The children, they do go to school in The House of Yahweh. They go to school the full--full time. I think it’s from 8:00 to 4:00 everyday except in summer months when the schools are out. And yes, they do have fund-raising projects in The House of Yahweh. They have agriculture taught. They have--they can raise their own garden, you know…

Ms. Grace: Uh-huh

Overseer: …but it’s never child labor as they have pictured it to be.

Ms. Grace: What do you make of the--what do you make of the informants who have told police that you have children out working in the fields all day long, as young as eleven years old when they should be in school? Why would they--are they persecuting you as well?

Overseer: They--they’re being a part of the whole system that is persecuting the Last Days’ Prophesied Work of Yahweh, yes.

Ms. Grace: That brings me to a very interesting question.

Overseer: Okay

Ms. Grace: I recall that at one juncture I believe you said that the end of the earth was going to come in the year 2000. Then it was upped to this. I have your book with me, by Yisrayl B. Hawkins, The Explosion of Sin, Birth of the Nuclear Baby. Now, as I recall, you predicted the end of the world, via a nuclear baby that was to occur on--in September of 2006, September 12, as I recall. Well, that has passed. Then it moved up to 2007. It’s currently 2008. What happened to the nuclear baby?

Overseer: The nuclear baby was prophesied to take place at that time and if you got the articles--now we published that book…

Ms. Grace: Uh-huh

Overseer: …before the date was to take place. But after we published the book, then the news articles starting coming in showing the nuclear pains of a baby or a nuclear war that is going to take place. We have the articles now and if you--I don’t know if you got those news articles or not but they show the exact dates that the Scriptures showed.

Ms. Grace: Well, you did the prophesying, sir.

Overseer: The war…

Ms. Grace: It was your prophecy. What happened?

Overseer: --nuclear war was attempted. The nuclear war was attempted but it didn’t take place. Now Revelation 7 shows that Yahweh himself held that war back for a time period. But it--Nancy, this is--this is going to take place. And its taking place right now in fact.

Ms. Grace: My question is…

Overseer: They are…

Ms. Grace: …you convinced your followers…

Overseer: They are getting ready for nuclear war.

Ms. Grace: Yes, I’m sure they are. But you convinced your followers that there would be a nuclear war in 2006, in 2007. If I recall, you brought it up to occur in 2000. It hasn’t happened. What became of the prophecy? How were you so misled by Yahweh?

Overseer: I wasn’t misled and I didn’t mislead the people either. If you will--the nuclear war is shown in chapter 6 of Revelation. Now in chapter 9--chapter 7…

Ms. Grace: Sir, I’m not arguing about Revelations. I’m not arguing about Revelations. I’m not arguing about John the Revelator. I am asking you about your prophecy. But if you’re not going to answer…

Overseer: My prophecies are coming to pass. Yes, they’re coming to pass now.

Ms. Grace: Hey…

Overseer: They’re coming to pass now.

Ms. Grace: …how long is the gestation period on this nuclear baby? I mean, it’s been a long time since 2000, 2006, 2007.

Overseer: [laughing] No, no. 2006, September the 6^th, 2007 is when the conception started. And of course…

Ms. Grace: Okay.

Overseer: …Yahweh held back the nuclear war of course…

Ms. Grace: Okay.

Overseer: …Yahweh held back the nuclear war and He’s holding it back. But it won’t be held back for long.

Ms. Grace: Let me ask you something other than the prophecies that I assume you are interpreting from Revelations. I would like to ask you about the 2.2 million dollars of property in your name. How did that happen?

Overseer: I’ve been—I’ve been in the rent business for about forty years in Abilene.

Ms. Grace: The what business?

Overseer: And of course, I had… rent, rent.

Ms. Grace: Yes.

Overseer: At one, I don’t know how many rent houses we have at this time, but at one time I know we had a hundred and seven but that’s where the money came from to start the Work of Yahweh. In fact, the Sanctuary at Eula was built with that--with rent money. That--the ground in Abilene was bought with it. The first House of Yahweh was built there with rent money and then the property at Eula was bought and paid for, the Sanctuary built for it. Yahweh has blessed me in business. I pay my taxes, so you can get my tax returns.

Ms. Grace: My question is, if all of this land is being used to glorify Yahweh, which of course, is an old testament term for god, why is it all in your name?

Overseer: It started out as being that way and of course, I would be glad to transfer it over to The House of Yahweh name if that’s what anyone wanted. It’s just a matter of business. I buy and sell property all the time, have been doing this for forty years in Abilene as well as preaching the Message of Yahweh for over forty years now.

Ms. Grace: I want to speak--

Overseer: …But my business has grown along, along with the Work.

Ms. Grace: Interesting that you mention buying and selling. Sounds like a lot of buying and not a whole lot of selling because that’s 2.2 million dollars worth of real estate in your name, and I’m just wondering if any of your congregations money has been used to buy all that land up. That’s that I know of, the 2.2. million.

Overseer: I have had to borrow money from time to time, yes. But I always pay my bills so. But we bought, we’ve sold a lot of property here and a lot of the property is still being sold right now, you know. We buy and sell property all the time.

Ms. Grace: Mr. Hawkins, I--

Overseer: There’s many of our members that have us looking for property for them and, and we buy property and, and cut it up and sell it into smaller pieces for our members, yes.

Ms. Grace: Mr. Hawkins I know that you teach the 613 rules, Laws…

Overseer: 6-1-3, six hundred and thirteen.

Ms. Grace: And I was just wondering, is divorce one of those? Is that allowed within The House of Yahweh?

Overseer: No. Yahweh says He hates divorce. He doesn’t recognize divorce. He--He has a peaceful solution

Ms. Grace: Well then, what about your divorce?

Overseer: I’ve never filed for a divorce myself--

Ms. Grace: My records show--

Overseer: --someone else did and I will--

Ms. Grace: --that you did file in 1976 from your wife Rosabelle Bolding.

Overseer: Say, say again?

Ms. Grace: Well, maybe I’m wrong, but according to my records you were married in about 1952 to Rosabelle Bolding. After that you had four children with a lady named Darlene and then you filed in 76, four years after your children with Darlene, you filed for divorce from Rosabelle Bolding. Is that incorrect?

Overseer: Couldn’t find--we couldn’t find the person. She, she ran off. Yes, there was a marriage in my younger days there and a very bad mistake that was made.

Ms. Grace: So there was a divorce?

Overseer: I was quite a sinner in my younger days, yes.

Ms. Grace: Sir, with that I cannot argue, and I am the first to admit to being a world-class sinner, but what I’m trying to find out, right now, is about these bigamy charges and whether divorce is tolerated within your House of worship. You’re telling me no, is that correct?

Overseer: That’s right, we don’t, we, in fact, we, we don’t allow things like that. That is, we--we speak against it. We don’t, we don’t enforce it. We just speak against it like we do fornication, adultery, sin of any kind.

Ms. Grace: I want to ask you, sir--

Overseer: Sin is breaking of Yahweh’s Laws by the way.

Ms. Grace: I want to ask you about two children: one born on February 25, 07 and one born on June 25, 07 four months apart. One of the mothers is Melissa Samantha Charles, age 23. The other child is born to a Meleyah Hawkins, age 19. Are those your children?

Overseer: I would love to discuss that with you, but my lawyer forbids me to do it at this time. [laughing]

Ms. Grace: Is that true, Mr. Young. Is that true, Mr. Young?

Mr. Young: That is true. That is true. I think that the information that’s contained in those arrest warrants and affidavits filed by the county attorney here have not been validated. It’s not been--

Ms. Grace: No, I’m asking you--

Mr. Young: --investigated--

Ms. Grace: --why cant he answer? That’s my question right now. Because if these two children are his children, then from what I understand under House of Yahweh, it is impermissible to father children outside of marriage. You got a 19-year-old pregnant and a 23-year-old pregnant; is he the father?

Mr. Young: Well, I, I and I, you know, whether or not he’s the father. The question that you’re really asking is he committing bigamy and you know--

Ms. Grace: Hey! Look! You don’t have to get married to get pregnant

Mr. Young: It’s against the rules of the church--

Ms. Grace: You don’t have to get married--

Mr. Young: Absolutely, you--you…

Ms. Grace: --to get pregnant We all know that, whether we condone it or not.

Mr. Young: The veteran prosecutor that you, that you are, you’ve made my point for me, Nancy. That’s exactly right. You don’t have to be married to get pregnant, and I concur with that and I suspect that once we--

Ms. Grace: Clock is ticking, clock is ticking. Can you answer me--

Mr. Young: Once, once, once we’ve investigated…

Ms. Grace: --are these his children? He’s got to investigate whether he, these are his children?

Mr. Young: Once, once, once we don’t know who these ladies are that are making these claims. We don’t know these claims are coming from.

Ms. Grace: You don’t know Melissa Samantha Charles or Meleyah Hawkins?

Mr. Young: I do not know either one of those people and neither of those people--

Ms. Grace: Mr. Hawkins, do you?

Mr. Young: --have been available or made themselves--

Ms. Grace: Mr. Hawkins, do you know these ladies? Do you?

Mr. Young: --available to be interviewed or, or to talk with me.

Ms. Grace: Do you know these ladies, Mr. Hawkins?

Overseer: I can’t, I can’t talk about that case right now, but--

Ms. Grace: No! I’m asking you--

Overseer: I can talk to you about religion.

Ms. Grace: --if you know them, if you even known them. Are you denying you even know them?

Overseer: I told you I cant talk about that. My lawyer just told you too, Nancy. I’m sorry.

Ms. Grace: With us tonight, a very special guest, the Reverend Yisrayl Hawkins is the leader of The House of Yahweh, up until this juncture, one of the most secretive religions within our country. But now facing charges of bigamy and child labor. He is speaking out, along with his attorney John young. Mr. Hawkins, thank you for being with us. Mr. Hawkins, I noticed that some of your sermons warn your congregation that the outside world is dangerous and unclean. You go so far as to have guards outside your compound at a lot of your worship services. Now, from my understanding, you guys are a form of Christianity, but Christ actually went into those areas that were unclean or dangerous or unseemly in order to win souls; why are you so secretive?

Overseer: We’re not really secretive. I’ve been on the air for almost twenty years. But the world is so unclean right now, Nancy, that you can get STDs from touching doorknobs. You should know this because the articles come out daily on 125 different sexually transmitted disease.

Ms. Grace: You know Christ did not worry about that when he went to go save the lepers. Why do you have armed guards outside your compound walls?

Overseer: The armed guards was--there is no armed guards at The House of Yahweh, never has been an armed guard at The House of Yahweh. Where did you get that?

Ms. Grace: How about guards? How about guards trained in martial arts?

Overseer: There are no, no one trained in martial arts. Who told you this?

Ms. Grace: With us tonight, Mr. Yisrayl Hawkins, leader of The House of Yahweh. He is facing a hundred years behind bars on charges of promoting bigamy. Also with him, a veteran trial lawyer, his attorney, Mr. John Young. Mr. Hawkins, thank you for being with us. Right now--

Overseer: Thank you.

Ms. Grace: Yes sir. Right now, who is your current wife?

Overseer: I was told not to give that name, because of the persecution that the news media has brought on The House of Yahweh and not to give the name of my wife or, or our children.

Ms. Grace: What became--

Overseer: We’re, were living under scary times right here, right now, because of the severe persecution--

Ms. Grace: Apparently,

Overseer: --that also came against the Savior that you mentioned a while ago.

Ms. Grace: A, a former wife of yours, Kay, has stated that you began preaching polygamy after an affair with a church secretary, is that true?

Overseer: I started preaching against polygamy at that time. I’ve never—I’ve never endorsed it and I’ve never encouraged it. In fact, we tell people “do not get married at this time.”

Ms. Grace: With us tonight in an exclusive appearance, is the Reverend Yisrayl Hawkins. He’s the leader of The House of Yahweh, now facing up to a hundred years behind bars for promoting bigamy and allegations of child labor. Also with him, no stranger to a courtroom, his attorney, John Young. Mr. Hawkins, you have been quoted as saying: There is, quote, nothing wrong according to the Laws of Yahweh with having more than one wife. Is that true?

Overseer: That’s true. The Laws, the Laws of Abraham had more than one wife. Joseph, the father of the Savior, had more than one wife. In fact, the Savior had earlier brothers, older brothers than He, from a marriage at the same time. So the Bible does promote this, but the Apostle said that we are to obey mans laws and that’s the reason I do not condone this in my teaching. I preach against it.

Ms. Grace: Okay.

Overseer: I preach against having more than one wife.

Ms. Grace: Then who is Rosabelle Bolding, who is Dawn, who is Kay Hawkins and who is your present wife and who are these woman that now purportedly each four months apart have given birth to your children?

Overseer: You’re going to be greatly surprised when you find the truth on this and it’s going to come out very soon--

Ms. Grace: Please surprise me now.

Overseer: --but I can’t talk about that.

Ms. Grace: Sir?

Overseer: I cant.

Ms. Grace: Sir?

Overseer: You know…

Ms. Grace: You know, I can’t, but I find it very disturbing…

Overseer: I’ve given my word to my attorney that I will not talk about it.

Ms. Grace: And if you marry someone, you gave your oath before God that you would stick with them through thick and thin and my question is: why are you so reticent? In fact, even refuse to give the name of your wife?

Overseer: Because of the severe danger that I would put her in right now if I gave her name.

Ms. Grace: What danger is that?

Overseer: Or the name of my children and my attorney has said do not do this, you know, because--

Ms. Grace: Okay.

Overseer: --we have had threats on our lives, because I am teaching that sin causes all of these curses that we are now suffering.

Ms. Grace: What curses is--are those? That you’re under indictment?

Overseer: Over a hundred STDs, the world going into famine right now, the nuclear, nuclear baby that is about to be turned loose.

Ms. Grace: So you espouse that sin, that God sends us disease, holocaust, nuclear war because we have sinned?

Overseer: We are the ones that’s causing this to come upon ourselves because we--Isayah 24:1-6, if you’ll read that. It says, because you have changed the Laws, transgressed the Laws, changed the Ordinance, broken the Everlasting Covenant; because of this the curse has devoured the earth.

Ms. Grace: Okay. I want to talk to you about Child Protective Services investigating twenty cases involving Yahweh members, including two children, possibly four, being removed from one of your elder’s homes, Yedidiyah Hawkins. He is charged with sexually molesting a fourteen-year-old girl. Is he still an elder in The House of Yahweh?

Overseer: I think you’ll find out that, that this is a--a bunch more lies that’s just being told to persecute Yahweh’s House and that’s not really, that’s not really the issues. The issues are they wanted to persecute Yahweh’s House so they come up with all these, these allegations.

Ms. Grace: So, who is they? Do you think 14-year-old girl is lying? His own stepdaughter is lying?

Overseer: I don’t want to comment on that, because I told my lawyer I would not comment on these cases, but very soon now--

Ms. Grace: Okay, do you think the CPS is in on it too?

Overseer: --very soon now I’ll come back on your show once this has been proven false. I’ll come back on your show and then maybe we can talk about what Yahweh has in plan for this earth.

Ms. Grace: Well, I’m more concerned right now about the twenty cases of child abuse and a 14-year-old girl claiming one of your elders, House of Yahweh elders has been molesting her for years. So, is that a no comment?

Overseer: There is no child abuse in The House of Yahweh, period. There is none. We love our children and everyone in The House of Yahweh loves their children and protects them to no end.

Ms. Grace: Does Yedidiyah Hawkins, Yedidiyah Hawkins, have access to children in your congregation?

Overseer: Does he have access to them?

Ms. Grace: Yes.

Overseer: Yedidiyah Hawkins was a teacher in The House of Yahweh before he was arrested and put in jail. He didn’t have access to any of the other children except his--except his own, as far as I know.

Ms. Grace: Sir, I’ve got a question. It’s been reported that you have many domiciles, homes. In these various homes, are there children?

Overseer: I have many rent houses and I’m sure some of the people that rent those houses, I still have rent houses, I don’t know how many, but I’m sure some of the people that rent those houses have children.

Ms. Grace: Are those children yours?

Overseer: No, no. [laughing] They belong to those people that live there that rent the houses. I know that they make out like that all these rent houses are, are my wives, but they’re, they’re not. I only have one wife.

Ms. Grace: Would that--

Overseer: And, and we have our own house.

Ms. Grace: --be Rosabelle, Dawn or Kay?

Overseer: Rosabelle, you know, she disappeared and I don’t know, we--you know, we were living in sin at that time and--and there’s--you know, that was when I was nineteen years old.

Ms. Grace: Then why did you file for divorce?

Overseer: What’s that?

Ms. Grace: If you were living in sin, I assume you mean unmarried.

Overseer: Why did I file for divorce? Because--

Ms. Grace: A divorce means you’ve been married.

Overseer: We couldn’t find her, and I, and I didn’t want to be married to two woman at the same time and I, and I did want to get married and that’s the reason that--

Ms. Grace: Sir, why do you wear a yamika I’ve observed you wearing a yamika in some of your televised sermons.

Overseer: The tallit? The tallit stands for the 613 Laws of Yahweh that govern our lives.

Ms. Grace: Are you Jewish?

Overseer: Yes, and the kippah that I wear.

Ms. Grace: Because your brother says you are Dutch and Cherokee.

Overseer: My brother said what?

Ms. Grace: That you are Dutch and Cherokee.

Overseer: I couldn’t understand what you was talking about but Yes, I am Jewish. I follow the Old Testament Laws of the Scriptures, which agree--which agree with the New Testament.

Ms. Grace: I agree with you. Which leads me to my next question. It’s my understanding that you are a Christian, or an interpretation of Christianity; do you recognize Easter and Christmas, and if not, why?

Overseer: Christmas is the birthday of a pagan sun god and that’s the reason December the 25th was chosen for that date. It’s condemned in Jeremiah the 10th chapter.

Ms. Grace: Okay. What about Easter?

Overseer: Easter, the Savior did not rise on Easter Sunday. In fact, the only sign that He gave that He was the True Messiah was that He would be in the grave three days and three nights as Jonah was in the fish’s belly three days and three nights.

Ms. Grace: Okay.

Overseer: You cannot get--you cannot get three days and three nights from Good Friday evening to Sunday morning at sunrise. Try to get that. Now that should show you something’s wrong.

Ms. Grace: Reverend Hawkins, why do you ask your congregants to pledge one-third of their income to The House of Yahweh and what do you do with all that money?

Overseer: The--I do not ask that of anyone. I pay tithe myself. That’s ten percent of my earnings, plus offerings. Now in the third and sixth year-- (Were going off the air again.)

Ms. Grace: With us tonight Mr. Yisrayl Hawkins, leader of The House of Yahweh, along with his attorney John Young. We are taking your calls. …Out to Jeannette in Texas. Hi Jeannette.

Jeannette: Hi

Ms. Grace: What’s your question dear?

Jeannette: Well I really have a question more for the lawyer.

Ms. Grace: Okay.

Jeannette: My family is a member of The House of Yahweh, so I have a question for the lawyer. Psychiatrists, doctors, counselors and ministers usually have malpractice insurance because the law usually holds them at least partially responsible for the things that they teach.

Ms. Grace: What is your question dear?

Jeannette: My question is, shouldn’t Yisrayl Hawkins be held partially responsible for like the death of Abiyah and for the destruction he’s wreaked on so many lives?

Ms. Grace: What about it John Young?

Mr. Young: I, well I, well I suppose it depends on how one, how one defines responsibility within the context of religion. I’m not aware of any statute or any case that holds a pastor or preacher liable for conduct that his parishioners engage in based upon the doctrines of the church.

Ms. Grace: Okay, so you’re saying he’s not responsible? There are three deaths that have occurred on the compound: a seven-year-old girl in 2003. In 2006 a woman died during childbirth. Her husband claims she was denied treatment and a one-month old died of malnutrition and asphyxiation. No charges have been filed in that.

Overseer(in a hushed voice): None of that was on House of Yahweh grounds.

Ms. Grace: Were those House of Yahweh…

Overseer: I’m sorry, none, none of that was on House of Yahweh grounds.

Ms. Grace: Were those House of Yahweh followers?

Mr. Young: That I don’t know, Nancy. I have, I have heard. I know there’s a civil suit pending as to--

Ms. Grace: Right.

Mr. Young: As to the death of the mother.

Ms. Grace: Yes, I just announced that.

Mr. Young: I don’t suppose those things will be--

Overseer: No, she wasn’t a member of the House of Yahweh.

Mr. Young: I suppose those things will be determined in the Civil Suit.

Ms. Grace: I’m sure they will. …Out to the lines. David in Wisconsin. Hi, David.

David: Hello.

Ms. Grace: What’s your question dear, very quickly?

David: Well, I was the website, you guys website today and he’s making a claim that--that global warming is caused by STDs and I just wanted to ask him about that.

Ms. Grace: What about it Mr. Hawkins? Global warming caused by STDs, sexually transmitted diseases.

Overseer: Yes, that’s exactly true. The firmament is being destroyed by STDs at this time. And if--the scientists are--are checking this right now. They’re—they’re on…

Ms. Grace: What scientists?

Overseer: I can’t give you their names but they’re checking it right now. They’ve got samples of the air already from different heights and--and they’re going after this information right now that we have announced that actually--actually a result of global warming. That’s what the Scripture shows. The Scripture shows that our sins have reached into the heavens. And our sins have actually--are actually causing all of these curses that we're experiencing.

Ms. Grace: Including the greenhouse effect?

Overseer: Including--including global warming, yes.

Ms. Grace: Okay.

Overseer: You’ll soon see that, the results of that come out.

Ms. Grace: To Dee in Delaware. Hi Dee. What’s your question dear?

Dee: Yes, I have a question. I’m wondering why Mr. Hawkins believes that it’s all right to, the child labor issues regarding children and as far as keeping them out of schools. Am I correct that’s what one of the accusations was?

Ms. Grace: That is what the accusation up to forty children as young as eleven. Now Mr. Hawkins, if I were charged with that, I would be very, very disturbed. You, however, are smiling, and that suggests to me that you are not disturbed about it. Why?

Overseer: No, first off. We don’t have any child labor going on in The House of Yahweh and second off, we do not keep our children out of school. Our children--

Ms. Grace: Okay, so you’re denying it.

Overseer: In the House of Yahweh, we have children that--yes, we have children at three-years-old that can read this bible right here or any book.

Ms. Grace: I appreciate that.

Overseer: They’re being taught.

Ms. Grace: But what I’m really worried about is long days of hard labor as in the allegations.

Overseer: No such thing.

Ms. Grace: And very quickly to Tammy in Utah. Hi Tammy, what’s your question?

Tammy: Hi Nancy, I’m so glad about your babies. They’re so beautiful.

Ms. Grace: Thank you.

Tammy: Here’s a question. Maybe Mr. Hawkins can answer this question.

Ms. Grace: Okay.

Tammy: What kind of satisfaction does he get out of controlling supposedly his wives and these children? I mean, this is ridiculous. I am ashamed to be a citizen of this country if a person is doing this.

Ms. Grace: Well, Tammy, I want to turn that around on you and lets be proud. Let’s be proud of being a citizen in a country where there are courts of law that seek justice. And before I even throw that to Mr. Hawkins, I know his attorney is not going to let him answer that either. Gentlemen, thank you for being with us.