NOTE:
Below Is The Complete Interview By ABC News Investigator
Reporter Brian Ross With The House of Yahweh Overseer Yisrayl Hawkins
In It's Orininal Content BEFORE
It Was Edited By ABC News.
Mr. Ross: Pastor Hawkins, thank you for being here. Let’s start by, what do you have here?
Overseer:
This, Book of Yahweh
Mr. Ross: What is Yahweh?
Overseer: Yahweh, of course, the very word Yahweh means someone who can create from nothing. That’s what His Name means.
Mr. Ross: That’s the name of god?
Overseer: Well …
Mr. Ross: You don’t call him god.
Overseer: [laughing] The problem is, He’s never known as a god in original Scriptures. His Name was Yahweh. If you had a interlinear that’s put out by Zondervan Publishing Company, it shows you the original translation of the Holy Scriptures and, for instance, the 23rd Psalm, the famous 23rd Psalm, it doesn’t say, “the lord is my shepherd”. It says, “Yahweh is my Shepherd”. And in the last verse, it doesn’t say, “I will dwell in the house of the lord.” It says, I will dwell in The House of Yahweh, forever”.
Mr. Ross: And so what is The House of Yahweh that you have created here?
Overseer: The House of Yahweh was prophesied to be established in the Last Days, Isayah 2:2, in the top nation of all nations…
Mr. Ross: In the Last Days?
Overseer:
It was prophesied. Now in Zecharyah
or
Zechariah,
as you have it in the King
James Version,
it says it would be established in a Babylonish land not yet
established. And this was speaking before America was established,
see. It was the only land that wasn’t occupied at that time. So it
had to be speaking of America. Now if you--if you put another
prophecy with this, which Revelation
7 showed,
it would be established west from the original Work; the original
Work was started by Abel who Cain killed. Well, Abel was a Righteous
Priest, and thousands of years later they were still asking at Abel,
the Scripture says. The King
James Version translated
it “the great rock of Abel”. Well if you start at Abel, Abilene;
I mean, Abel, Israel and you go west as the Scripture said, you’ll
run into Abilene, Texas. And Abilene, Texas is named after Abel who
started the first Righteous Work, The House of Yahweh. And that’s
what it’s called in the original Scriptures, The House of Yahweh.
Mr. Ross: So it’s not just by random selection that you have decided--you built The House of Yahweh outside Abilene?
Overseer: Oh, no. No. In fact, when I was led here I didn’t even know that Prophecy. [laughing]
Mr. Ross: You…
Overseer: I didn’t even know it.
Mr. Ross: You believe you were led to Abilene?
Overseer: Oh, yes.
Mr. Ross: To create The House of Yahweh?
Overseer: To start The House of Yahweh?
Mr. Ross: And how long has it been in existence?
Overseer: I came here in 1967 and, of course, I was preaching before I came here. I had gone to college, a bible college, me and my brother Jacob. And my brother actually moved, in ’69, he moved to Israel, because we thought, at that time, that we were gonna start the Work in Israel, but it--it didn’t develop that way. He stayed in Israel for seven years and then came back and started a House of Yahweh in Odessa, Texas. I stayed here but I moved to Abilene and--and I was preaching, put out a Prophetic Word here and he put out a magazine that he called Prophetic Watchman, in Israel. And the two of them were going together. But when he came back we joined hands and joined works, you know, and even though I was in Abilene and he was in Odessa, we worked together. And then my brother died, of course, and--but he came here and helped me dedicate the Work here to Yahweh in Abilene. And of course, this Work then took over, I mean it’s grown. And…
Mr. Ross: You started out, what year did you start?
Overseer: What year was what?
Mr. Ross: Did you start The House of Yahweh?
Overseer: The House of Yahweh was actually legally established in 1982. That’s when we were recognized by the government as a non-profit organization.
Mr. Ross: And how big is it now?
Overseer: I can’t--I can’t tell you. We have--we have thousands of members all over the world. We have thousands of people here in the United States. They don’t all come here. But--but here in Abilene alone, I think, where we have a regular service of about between 400 and 600 every week, 400 and 600 members in this particular spot. But we have Houses of Yahweh in several different nations right now. And--but not all of them get to come to Abilene to keep the Feasts, you know, or to keep the Sabbaths.
Mr. Ross: Are you Christian? Are you Jewish?
Overseer: You’d probably call us both, because, and we don’t call us, we don’t call ourselves Christians or Jews [laughing]…
Mr. Ross: Neither one?
Overseer: We’re called by Yahweh The House of Yahweh. But the Jewish faith of course they, my ancestors, I am Hebrew. My mother and daddy trace back to the tribe of Levi, both of them. My ancestors fled Europe because of the persecution for the Jewish people. You know there was millions of them died because of--for keeping the Sabbaths, keeping the Feast Days, trying to. The Jewish religion though today, they don’t keep the Laws of Yahweh. There’s 613 Laws of Yahweh in your bible, in the first five books of your bible, written under Inspiration, inspired to be written by Yahweh.
The Prophecies in the “old testament”, what we call the “old testament” book, they prophesied of a Savior that would come to pay for man’s sins; die and pay for man’s sins so he could be forgiven. And then, of course, the Prophecies said that that Person would be resurrected, He would ascend to the Father and sit at the Right Hand of Yahweh and become High Priest as Hebrews, now this is in the “new testament”, Hebrews the fourth chapter shows that He’d be High Priest over The House of Yahweh. Hebrews 10 shows the same thing, over The House of Yahweh.
Now, when the King James Version was translated, they took out the Name of Yahweh and they replaced it with words such as “lord” and “god”. If you had a Unger’s Bible Dictionary right now and you looked up the word “lord” it would tell you it’s not a divine title and should have never been used to replace the Creator’s Name, which means they know that the Name was replaced.
If you could see the Dead Sea Scrolls, I saw them, and I could make out the word, although it’s sealed in glass, you know, but it showed wording. You could see the Name Yahweh all through the Dead Sea Scrolls. So we know His Name was changed from Yod He Waw He, which is your Hebrew letters. It’s pronounced “Yah-way” in Hebrew or English, but in English we spell it Y-a-h-w-e-h. And that gets the same sound as Yod He Waw He. We--when we discovered the Name Yahweh, I wasn’t born with it or anything, but when we discovered the Name Yahweh, we, both myself and my brother, starting praying to Yahweh through Yahshua, Who is the Name of the Savior.
The Name of the Savior was prophesied, the time of His coming, the time of His birth was prophesied, the time of His coming, the time of His death and even the destruction of the temple was all prophesied by the Prophet Daniyl. And the Man named Yahshua, which means Yahweh will save His People from their sins, that Man Who was killed, He actually foretold His death to His Apostles. And then He said, “Don’t put any stock in this temple right here because there won’t be one stone left upon another here that will not be torn--thrown down.”
It was--it was in 70 c.e. before that temple was destroyed, but every stone was removed and it was the Roman army plowed it like a field. And that’s exactly the Prophecy that said Zion would be plowed like a field. They didn’t want anyone to know that a temple ever stood there. That’s how much they hated--hated that temple.
Mr. Ross: Let me ask you, what do you think accounts for the growth of your House of Yahweh?
Overseer: It can only be Yahweh’s calling, of course, because He--
Mr. Ross: What do you think you’re saying to people that they’re not getting elsewhere?
Overseer: I failed to get your question.
Mr. Ross: What is it you’re preaching to people that they seem to be drawn to you?
Overseer: Well, of course, I teach that we should--I teach Salvation. The only way to Salvation is keeping the Laws of Yahweh. The Savior Who was the prophesied Savior, proven to be the Savior, He said we must, Matthew 4:4, He said we must live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of Yahweh. In Matthew 5:17, He said, “don’t even think that I have come to destroy the Laws or the Prophets, I’m not come to destroy but to establish.” And He says, “unless--until heaven and earth pass away one yod or one tittle will not--not vanish”.
Now in Revelation 22, that’s the last Revelation given to mankind, by the way, by an Inspired Prophet. Revelation 22, that’s the last chapter in Revelation, verse 17, He starts with verse 12, He said, “Behold, I come quickly and My reward is with Me to give every man according to his works”. He said, “I’m the First and the Last. The Beginning and the End, the Alpha and Omega. He said, “Blessed are those who keep His, speaking of the Father, His Laws that they may have right to the Tree of Life and may enter in through the gates into the city.” He says, all the rest are outside. They’re dogs and whoremongers and so forth. Now that’s what I preach.
Mr. Ross: Let me ask you this though, how is it that a former Abilene, Texas policeman now runs a church with thousands, maybe tens of thousands of members?
Overseer: I was studying, I guess--I was brought up on the bible. My mother and dad…
Mr. Ross: That seem unusual to you?
Overseer: [laughing] Yeah, probably so.
Mr. Ross: It does to many people.
Overseer: Probably so. When--but I was raised on this, this bible.
Mr. Ross: On the bible?
Overseer: Yeah. When--see there was no television sets when I was born.
Mr. Ross: Have you been surprised at the growth of The House of Yahweh?
Overseer: Well, I would have preferred it to have grown faster! [laughing] But that’s Yahweh’s doing. The Scripture teaches that Yahweh must call a person. He must, in fact, He sets a time for it. Anyone who’s called into the House the Apostle said are pre-ordained, that’s the King James Version, pre-ordained to be called. And, of course, in the days of the Savior, you know, that wasn’t really the day of Salvation although some--but He spoke to them in parables to keep them from knowing what I’m teaching right now. But the Savior actually prophesied that I would be teaching in this time period.
Mr. Ross: That you?
Overseer: Yes, Prophecy and He calls my name in fact.
Mr. Ross: You?
Overseer: You wouldn’t know it from the King James Version.
Mr. Ross: You are named; you are named in the bible?
Overseer: Yisrayl. Isayah called my name too.
Mr. Ross: You weren’t born with that name?
Overseer: No.
Mr. Ross: You had a different name entirely, right? What was your name at birth?
Overseer: Buffalo Bill Hawkins.
Mr. Ross: And now you’re Yisrayl Hawkins? You’re saying you were named in the bible?
Overseer: I’ll tell you another …
Mr. Ross: Is that what you’re saying?
Overseer: …another more surprising than this. The hidden codes shows the name Buffalo Bill Hawkins and then it shows…
Mr. Ross: The hidden codes?
Overseer: Yes, the hidden codes of the bible.
Mr. Ross: And you believe you were named…
Overseer: What?
Mr. Ross: …you were named several centuries ago to be here in Abilene?
Overseer: That’s right. And the Prophecies said, “In the Last Days I will establish My House.” And then He says in Isayah 44, He says two brothers from the same womb, He said, one will call himself by the name of Jacob under duress. The Hebrew word shows under duress. Now I didn’t know about this Prophecy when I actually changed my name. I didn’t, my brother didn’t know about it either. But He says the other one will subscribe with his hand legally and change his name to Yisrayl. And then Yahweh says later on in the Prophecies, He said, it was Me Who named you even though you didn’t know it.
And then the hidden codes showed that my name would be Buffalo Bill but changed to Yisrayl Bill.
Mr. Ross: That’s in the bible?
Overseer: Yes.
Mr. Ross: I’ve never seen that.
Overseer: [laughing] I know.
Mr. Ross: I mean, I’ve never read it as closely as you but I’ve never seen…
Overseer: It’s a combination of Prophecies…
Mr. Ross: Secret codes?
Overseer: In Isayah 44, for instance, see, it gives you these two brothers…
Mr. Ross: Can you show me the secret code?
Overseer: I don’t have it with me but I’ll be glad to send you this, to send you the hidden codes, yes. And one of our men works with this full time. He’s got it printed out and I’ll give you a copy of it if you want it.
Mr. Ross: Let me ask you this, everyone who belongs to the House of Yahweh…
Overseer: Uh-huh
Mr. Ross: …takes the name Hawkins.
Overseer: Well, no not everyone.
Mr. Ross: Almost everyone?
Overseer: Some of them do.
Mr. Ross: Most do. Why is that? Do you demand that they take your name?
Overseer: Because, I think one, of our Priests was inspired to bring a sermon on it. He first changed his name because he saw it in the Scriptures, and he changed his name to Hawkins. Because Hawkins, it comes from the Hebrew word Priest, Kahan. Hawkins is ha-cohen, ha-cohen in Hebrew and it means the Priest. So when he was, you know, Yahweh says, “you will be unto Me a Kingdom of Priests if you’ll keep My Laws. I’ll make a Kingdom of Priests out of you, if you will truly obey My Voice and keep My Laws.” And that started the ball to rolling. The first one that brought this sermon was Kahan Shaul.
Mr. Ross: You’re aware…
Overseer: Yes.
Mr. Ross: …that most members of this Faith have taken your name. They added that name.
Overseer: Not most of them. But…
Mr. Ross: Almost all.
Overseer: Yeah, actually, comparatively it would be very few that you’ll find, you know.
Mr. Ross: The people that we talked to today, every single person…
Overseer: Was named Hawkins, yeah.
Mr. Ross: Is that a little vain on your part to have everybody take your name?
Overseer: If my name wasn’t Hawkins…
Mr. Ross: They do it on their own, you say
Overseer: …If my name wasn’t Hawkins, I’d change it today to Hawkins because it means Priest and I want to be a Priest of Yahweh…
Mr. Ross: But have your members in your congregation change their name to yours, does that seem to you to be an excess of vanity.
Overseer: Well see, I don’t promote this but I don’t…
Mr. Ross: You don’t stop it.
Overseer: Sir?
Mr. Ross: You don’t stop it.
Overseer: Well no. I see no reason to stop it. The…
Mr. Ross: Does it seem a little funny to you that everyone has the last name the same, Hawkins? They take your name?
Overseer: No to surname themselves by the name Hawkins is--is like surnaming their self “Priest” or saying to Yahweh, “I want to be a member of Your Family.” Because the word Hawkins means--it comes from the word ha-cohen and it means Priest. And that was the reason they’re changing their name to Hawkins, not because I told them to.
Mr. Ross: Yeah, but they describe to us that they do this out of respect for you, out of their love for you.
Overseer: No, out of their love for Yahweh and His Laws and they want to be part of His Family.
Mr. Ross: They also say out of respect for you as a man. They see you as a great teacher. Some are likening you to “Jesus”, who you would call the Savior. Do you think of yourself like that?
Overseer: I tell them to look at me as a farm boy in Oklahoma.
Mr. Ross: Well, they don’t.
Overseer: [laughing] Okay. That’s Yahweh’s doing.
Mr. Ross: Do you see…
Overseer: I remember…
Mr. Ross: Let me ask you on that point, do…
Overseer: I remember King David, King David said, you know, I feel so insecure because I’m a little shepherd boy and you’re putting me here as king. I feel the same way sometimes because I picture myself as the little farm boy that drove the mule pulling the plow, plowing land. And I feel like sometimes I’m, you know exalted more than I can stand by Yahweh Himself but it’s Yahweh Himself Who prophesied that I would be teaching His Laws in these Last Days and bringing all of these Laws back to life again.
Mr. Ross: You are result of a Prophecy from the Creator?
Overseer: Yes. All the Prophets. Isayah the Prophet spoke about me. The Savior Himself was pictured with me in Daniyl by Daniyl the Prophet. And then the Savior spoke of me Himself in a Prophecy showing the Last Days’ Work, the last, the very Last Days’ Work that we’re in right now. He, Himself, the Savior Himself said, and you really need to put this on your news, very shortly now you will see a third part of man killed over a fourth part of the earth in and around the great River Euphrates by nuclear war. Now, you’ll see this very soon, really soon. Okay?
Mr. Ross: We’re going to see nuclear war?
Overseer: Yes. Not just anywhere, but in and around the great River Euphrates; a third part of man killed over that fourth part of the earth by nuclear war that’s going to start really soon. Now, He tells you how many is gonna be killed. And He tells you where it is. Now this is a Prophecy and it tells you how it’s going to be, by nuclear war and famine, and disease. It’s all in the Words of the Savior.
Mr. Ross: And do you have a date this is going to happen?
Overseer: No, He’s holding it back right now, but it’s started.
Mr. Ross: You’ve given dates before…
Overseer: The--well, I gave--I gave a date for the nuclear baby to start and it’s in-- it actually came to pass. In fact, six bombs were tried to be sent and the Colonel Falon, if you remember, it was in the news. You remember Falon who stopped the war single-handed. That was what the news said. He stopped that war single-handed. But the nuclear baby, this was a nuclear pain. The next nuclear pain was shortly after that, I mean, before this when--it was September, September 16, 2006 when the United States and Israel bombed the Syrian nuclear plant right on the Euphrates River; struck it with a nuclear bomb, one bomb and destroyed the plant, a tactical nuclear bomb. That’s just birth pains that Yahweh actually gave the dates for that we brought out in the book, The Birth of the Nuclear Baby, but we published the book before the pains started. And right after we published that book the pains started, the news events starting coming in and we sent them to the people. And --but you can get that book right now. You can get the magazine that shows how Yahweh actually named the dates that that nuclear baby would start.
Mr. Ross: You have named two dates so far.
Overseer: Uh-huh, both of them came to pass.
Mr. Ross: But the world did not end on either date.
Overseer: Oh, no. I didn’t--
Mr. Ross: We’re still sitting here.
Overseer: --I didn’t say the world would end. The world is going to end like this: first it will be the third part killed over a fourth part of the earth in and around the great River Euphrates by nuclear war. And then Yahweh says, He said, they still won’t repent. Let me read that to you.
Mr. Ross: Wait, before you--before you get that. You have a new date you have named, right?
Overseer: Oh, no. No, I haven’t set any date for the war to end. I set a date for the nuclear baby to start.
Mr. Ross: What’s your next date? You have another date you have mentioned now, right? June of this year?
Overseer: June of this year? As a possibility it could start at that time.
Mr. Ross: June 12th of this year?
Overseer: It could.
Mr. Ross: What could start?
Overseer: The--what--what I was gonna show you here next.
Mr. Ross: A nuclear holocaust?
Overseer: After the third part of man is killed in that fourth part of the earth, Yahweh says, and the rest of man who was not killed by these plagues still would not repent of the works of their hands. Works of their hands is nuclear bombs see that He just shows in this chapter here. He says, neither would they repent of their murders, or their sorceries, nor their fornication. You want to know why I fight fornication so bad? [laughing] The world will not repent. Now, what’s going to take place is…
Mr. Ross: On June 12th?
Overseer: No.
Mr. Ross: What’s going to happen, I just want to pin you down, if I can for a second. What do you say is going to happen on June 12th this year?
Overseer: I haven’t said that anything will start. I said there’s a possibility it could start by then because…
Mr. Ross: And what would that be that could start?
Overseer: That June 12th is pictured in the hidden codes. It doesn’t say, but we’re expecting the nuclear baby to be turned loose. It’s being held back by Yahweh. Chapter 7 of Revelation shows He’s holding back this nuclear baby until He has sealed the number of His Servants in their foreheads.
Mr. Ross: But it could be turned loose this June?
Overseer: Oh, yes.
Mr. Ross: June 12th?
Overseer: But it could be turned loosed before then. I don’t expect it to be turned loosed before then.
Mr. Ross: When do you expect it to be turned loosed?
Overseer: By June 12th.
Mr. Ross: So we’ll all be dead?
Overseer. No. No. No. [laughing] Now listen to me closely. There’ll be a third part of man killed over that fourth part of the earth first…
Mr. Ross: Which means a third of mankind?
Overseer: A third of the man over that fourth part of the earth. Nuclear war…
Mr. Ross: A third of--a third of the people…
Overseer: Nuclear war is going to be on that fourth part of the earth in and around the great River Euphrates.
Mr. Ross: So in a language we can all understand, a third of the people who live in the Mideast will be killed…
Overseer: By nuclear war.
Mr. Ross: …it will start somewhere on the Euphrates?
Overseer: Yes. It’s already started. That was the birth pains you saw. When this baby is born you’re going to see a third part of man dead in that fourth part of the earth. Got that?
Mr. Ross: And that you think could start next week?
Overseer: Now next, they still won’t repent of the works of their hands, which is causing this war around the great River Euphrates. They still won’t repent. They are going to keep on until, Matthew 24, until the sun is darkened. That’s also given in Revelation 6 and 9, until the sun is darkened, and the moon will not give its light. And at that time, at that time, four-fifths of the earth’s population will be destroyed. Only one-fifth will be left at that time.
Mr. Ross: Are you aware that people, in many cases, make you out as a laughingstock for picking these dates and the world’s still there the next day?
Overseer: You know, the Savior Himself told me not to worry about that. He said, “They’re going to hate you above all people on the face of the earth.” They’re gonna hate me, above all people on the face of the earth.
Mr. Ross: The savior, Jesus Christ, told you that?
Overseer: Yep.
Mr. Ross: When did he tell you that?
Overseer: In the Scriptures.
Mr. Ross: It’s there?
Overseer: Matthew 24, we’d be hated above all people.
Mr. Ross: That was sent to you, personally?
Overseer: That pertains to the one that takes this Message of the Kingdom to all the world.
Mr. Ross: And you see yourself in that role?
Overseer: Yes.
Mr. Ross: Do you compare yourself…
Overseer: Oh yes. The House of Yahweh was established for this purpose, to take this Message to all the world. That’s what the Scripture shows.
Mr. Ross: Do you compare yourself to Jesus Christ?
Overseer: No. No. Never.
Mr. Ross: You have the same role he had? Do you have the same role he had?
Overseer: Now, remember His Name is Yahshua. It couldn’t possibly be Jesus Christ. [laughing] That word…
Mr. Ross: Most people in the world referring to him as Jesus Christ. We don’t have to debate the--where the words come from just so our audience understands.
Overseer: Okay. No, the Savior is High Priest over The House of Yahweh. I’m the peon that He’s pulling the strings to do the Work right now, me and the Priests of Yahweh. I don’t know how many Priests there is in the House but they’re all involved in this Work. Deacons and Priests and Deaconess, and Kahans, Kohanahs, we’re all involved in this Work. But Yahshua is the One Who’s High Priest over the House of Yahweh Who’s actually opening the doors and guiding this Work to spread the Message. That’s why you’re here because He had you come here.
Mr. Ross: Who had me come here?
Overseer: Our High Priest
Mr. Ross: Not David Sloan of ABC News?
Overseer: [laughing] No. He might have thought he did, but there’s a Higher Power that brought you here.
Mr. Ross: You know, you have many critics.
Overseer: Yeah, I know.
Mr. Ross: And they say that you practice a kind of mind control over members of your congregation, that you have created a cult-like situation here, right here, and you’ve got the people wrapped around your little finger.
Overseer: If getting the people to keep the Ten Commandments, if you could classify that as mind control, then yes, I would say I’m controlling their minds; or Yahweh is, because He says, “I know your mind, I know your heart, and that’s the way I judge you.” And the Savior Himself said now, He said, you know, He’s speaking of the Laws, and this is what I do I expound on the Laws. He said, you know, it’s written that man tells you “do not commit adultery” but I say unto you, if you look upon a woman with--to lust after her in your own, you have committed adultery already with her. Now this is the same thing He taught His Disciples. The same thing I’m teaching today. And yes, He had control of His Disciples because His Disciples followed the Laws He taught.
I teach the Laws of Yahweh myself, and I’m --I rejoice when I see someone that repents and turns from sin. But no, I don’t control their mind in a witch-like fashion that the world is speaking of, to where I have some sort of power over them. I merely teach the Laws to them and I beg them to follow those Laws so they’ll be a part of Yahweh’s Kingdom.
Mr. Ross: You mentioned one of the Ten Commandments, adultery.
Overseer: Yes.
Mr. Ross: You are accused of bigamy, it is said that you have proposed that people should have more than one wife, talk to me about that.
Overseer: What I put in the book, I wrote a book on Yahweh’s Laws. There’s not--there’s nothing wrong with Yahweh’s Laws. I would--I would stand on them til I die. It’s the same thing as don’t commit fornication, don’t steal, don’t--honor your mother and father, and so forth. These Laws are wonderful Laws.
Now if you know what the Levirate Law is where Yahweh said, if your brother dies, you know, you are obligated through the love of My Laws, that’s what His Laws teach is love, to take his--to go in unto his wife and produce a child to bring up to keep his name going. That was done out of love. There are--there are 613 of these Laws that I uphold. Now, Book Two of The Book of Yahweh, which you call the “new testament”, it says that man must abide by the laws of the land, within--as--as much as he possibly can, or as the King James Version, as much as lies within him possible. I said in the book there is no need for us to have more than one wife at this time.
Mr. Ross: But is it okay to have more than one?
Overseer: It is okay by Yahweh’s Laws. It’s not okay by man’s laws.
Mr. Ross: There’s a conflict?
Overseer: But-but what we must do right now, we’re not--we’re not commanded to marry more than one wife.
Mr. Ross: You don’t see anything wrong with that?
Overseer: There’s nothing wrong according to Yahweh’s Laws.
Mr. Ross: How about for you, do you see anything wrong with having more than one wife?
Overseer: Yes, because the laws of the land says you can’t have more than one wife.
Mr. Ross: How many wives do your have?
Overseer: I’ve got a wife, one wife, but the law itself says, the laws of the land says you can’t have but one wife. I say we must abide by that law until the Kingdom of Yahweh takes over the kingdoms of man--
Mr. Ross: And then?
Overseer: --which is prophesied.
Mr. Ross: And then what happens?
Overseer: Then they will be living by Yahweh’s Laws again.
Mr. Ross: And you’ll have how many wives?
Overseer: I’m satisfied with one, myself.
Mr. Ross: Under the Yahweh Law, how many wives would be allowed?
Overseer: How many did King David have?
Mr. Ross: You tell me. You have the direct line that I don’t. Yeah.
Overseer: How about Solomon? Do you remember how many he had? I can’t either, [laughing] but he had a number.
Mr. Ross: Are you essentially saying that under Yahweh’s Laws, having two or three wives--
Overseer: Yes, Yahweh’s Laws. Abraham had more than one wife. Seth had more than one wife; the Scriptures show he had two.
Mr. Ross: Those are different times, this is different. This is the twenty first century.
Overseer: Did you know that up until one hundred years ago that everyone was still driving wagons and teams. Did you know that fifty years ago, fifty years ago, I was riding--no, sixty years ago, I was riding to town in a wagon and team.
Mr. Ross: But I’m asking you about number of wives.
Overseer:I’ve already answered that, I think. What did I not answer?
Mr. Ross: By point is, what happened in biblical times, isn’t that different than what happens today, in the twenty-first century, in terms of the number of wives a man can have.
Overseer: Well it’s still legal by Yahweh Laws, but I already told you, we teach the same thing that the Apostle taught. We’re not commanded to have more than one wife. And this is what we teach our people, you’re not commanded to have more than one wife; you are commanded by the Apostles, they tell you under Inspiration, live by man’s laws.
Mr. Ross: But you see nothing wrong with it?
Overseer: Not in the Scriptures, but certainly by man, and we’re told to obey man’s laws, so that’s the reason we don’t have more than one wife.
Mr. Ross: Have you sent the message that it’s preferable to have more than one wife?
Overseer: I teach in my book that, the same thing I’m telling you, that we are not to have more than one wife at this time. Now when the Kingdom of Yahweh takes over, those that want to marry someone, you know, have an extended family of some kind, the bible doesn’t forbid it. But it does--the laws of the land forbids it now, so we say don’t do it.
Mr. Ross: So at this time, does anybody here, part of your church, have more than one wife?
Overseer: Not that I know of.
Mr. Ross: So what about this criminal charge brought against you?
Overseer: The what, now?
Mr. Ross: The bigamy charge brought against you, what was that all about?
Overseer: Are there bigamy charges against me? Are there bigamy charges against me? I’ll have to let my lawyer answer that.
Mr. Ross: You know that you were arrested, right?
Overseer: Yes.
Mr. Ross: And they set a very high bond for you.
Overseer: Yes, ten million bucks. That shows they hated me more than anybody that’s ever been arrested in Callahan County.
Mr. Ross: Is that what it’s about, you think?
Overseer: Well, He said I’d be hated above all people on the face of the earth. But if you read my book…
Mr. Ross: Who said that?
Overseer: The Scriptures, the Savior.
Mr. Ross: Said you, Yisrayl Hawkins?
Overseer: He said the one that would bring this Message of the Kingdom, this Message will be preached in all the world as a witness, unto all nations, and then the end would come. And He says the ones that bring that Message are going to be hated above all people on the face of the earth. But listen, in the first part, in the Preface, of my book we-I tell the people flat out, don’t get married in this time period. Try to keep yourselves, try to keep yourselves just with Yahweh Alone, and Yahshua our High Priest, but don’t--don’t perform marriages. Don’t get married. That’s what I teach.
Now, I know the lustful pulls of man and woman are the strongest there are, so we don’t forbid marriage. But we’re like the Apostle in teaching that because of the severity of the time period right now that we’re in we shouldn’t be getting married and having children. He says, “Woe to those that give suck in these days.”
Mr. Ross: You’re teaching don’t get married?
Overseer: We’re recommending that no one get married in this time period.
Mr. Ross: Because it’s so dangerous?
Overseer: Yes. We’re expecting nuclear war very soon. It’s going to be turned loosed. I just told you this now, okay.
Mr. Ross: As soon as June 12th?
Overseer: It could come before that. It could come while we’re speaking right now. I don’t when Yahweh is going to turn it loose. He doesn’t say. He just says He’s holding it back until this number is sealed, and He shows how many is gonna be sealed. When the number is complete, He will turn that war loose. And you’ll see it. Then you’ll believe. When you see that third part of man killed over that fourth part of the earth you’re gonna start believing what the Scripture says.
Mr. Ross: But to go back to…this is the actual charge. You’ve seen that I’m sure. I know you can’t talk about the specifics, because your lawyer who’s here, has asked you not to talk about that and that’s, that’s good advice.
Overseer: He’ll, he’ll explain it.
Mr. Ross: …what do you say about the fact, for you, to be arrested, charged with a crime…
Overseer: Well, I know these are false, false charges. I know that I’m not guilty of anything like this. But I know that in order--I believe that Yahweh allowed this to be done to have you come here and spread this Message with me.
Mr. Ross: This is all part of a grand plan?
Overseer: I believe so. With all my heart I believe that to be true.
Mr. Ross: And when you were locked up and spent seven nights in jail, what was that like for you?
Overseer: I wouldn’t trade that experience for anything. I wouldn’t want to go back and do it again, but I’m glad that Yahweh allowed me to suffer for His Work’s sake.
Mr. Ross: So you think this criminal charge brought against you by the district attorney here is simply a result of your teachings?
Overseer: Yes. Yes. I know I’m hated in Callahan County. I know I’m hated severely because, one thing, because I’m a Jewish religion, which they’re against. Number two, I brought other races here to Callahan County which is also resented somewhat. There’s a great deal of hatred for these things. Number three, I expose their sins; their sins and the sins of all the world by teaching the Laws. The same as the Savior did.
If I hadn’t of come, if Yahweh hadn’t of established this House they would not have their sins revealed, but now they have no cloak for their sins. And because of that, they hate me. They know they’re sinning. They know they’re breaking the Laws of Yahweh. I John 3:4 says, he who sins transgresses the Laws. I John 3:7 says, let no man deceive you, he who practices Righteousness is Righteous. I John 3:8 says, he who practices sin belongs to Satan the devil. Now they know they’re sinning. They know they’re breaking all of these Laws. Every one of the Ten Commandments is being broken here, in this--in this area, right now.
You know you’ve broke them. And if I started teaching you what you’ve done already and how you’ve not repented, and I know what they’re teaching, they’re teaching the Savior did it all for them, but He doesn’t say that. He says, I’m gonna say to them, this is--this is Matthew 7:23. He says, I’m going to say to you, “Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity.” The word iniquity means not subject to the Father’s Laws. Now that’s the Savior’s Words.
Mr. Ross: The people who have brought these charges against you…
Overseer: Uh-huh, okay.
Mr. Ross: …you have called former members of the church traitors, Judases…
Overseer: Okay.
Mr. Ross: Are they?
Overseer: Yes, that’s the way--that’s the way Scripture describes--described Judas. You remember that his name fit him. He betrayed the Savior. And then the Savior, because He was preaching the Laws of Yahweh, that’s what He said, He said He was hated, and the Father was hated. The Savior was arrested by the police; remember? He was arrested. They sent the police out and arrested Him. They took Him to their jail and punished Him. In fact, the man was beaten and punished all night. And they finally hung on the stake the next day to die. That’s how much He was hated. He says, I’m going to be hated worse than He was. That’s what He says in Matthew 24, above all people.
Mr. Ross: And that’s what you think has happened?
Overseer: Oh, I know it is. I know it’s taking place right now.
Mr. Ross: And the people who have made the allegations against you, people who used to be part of your family, part of your congregation, you see them as traitors.
Overseer: I seem them, yes, as backsliders. That’s what the Scriptures calls them. Backsliders, because they had the Holy Commandments taught to them and they didn’t want to keep them. And II Kepha said, II Peter, He said it would have been better for them had they not learned the commandments then to, then to of known these holy commandments and then turned back from them. Kepha said they’re like dogs that turn back to their own vomit or like a hog whose been washed that turns back to the mud. That’s what the Scripture describes them as.
Mr. Ross: You’re not afraid?
Overseer: You know, you know what the Savior said about Judah? You saw what he wrote about Judah, the one who betrayed him?
Mr. Ross: Judas?
Overseer:Yes, and of course, Judas went out and supposedly went out and killed himself. But what was your last question?
Mr. Ross: Are you afraid? Are you afraid the police are going to come and put you in prison for a long time?
Overseer: They can only do what Yahweh allows them to do. If Yahweh allows it, of course, they probably would. But they can only go that far. Just like they did with the Savior. The Savior said they would have no power if it wasn’t granted by Yahweh Himself. That’s the reason they were able to kill the Savior, for teaching the Laws of Yahweh.
Mr. Ross: You’re not afraid?
Overseer: No.
Mr. Ross: Why not?
Overseer: Well see, my trust is in Yahweh and His Work. I know that His Work is taking place right now. The Prophecies that He has already prophesied would take place, they’re taking place right now. So, you know, I know everything is in Yahweh’s Hands. He’s in control.
He’s--Yahweh invented, He created the earth in order to create mankind, in order to form a Righteous Kingdom. And He said in the first chapter of Genesis, “I’m going to make a certain portion of mankind in My Image, after My Likeness and I will give them Authority.” Now that Plan has been carried out all the way through to Revelation. And Revelation is showing us the last part of that Plan and the ending of man’s governments. Daniyl says when this sun is darkened, by the governments themselves, then four-fifths of the earth’s population is going to be gone. And then Yahweh will take over the kingdoms of this earth and they will become the kingdoms of Yahweh and they will be ruled then or taught and guided by Yahweh Himself, by--by His Laws.
The Priesthood that He’s forming right now will actually take over the governments of man and they will start teaching all the world as in Zechariah the 14th chapter shows, that they will be keeping the Laws of Yahweh and will become totally Holy, what is left alive. What is left alive at the end of this Tribulation period will actually be keeping the Feasts of Yahweh, what none of the world keeps today except The House of Yahweh.
Mr. Ross: Let me ask you about another, a second even more serious allegation that there--children, young girls are abused here.
Overseer: Not so. Our children are praised; they’re glorified. You know, we, we look at our children as the future Kingdom of Priests of Yahweh.
Mr. Ross: Are they pushed to have sex with older men?
Overseer: No! Never! In The House of Yahweh--the only place you’d find virgins on earth is The House of Yahweh. They’re taught to be virgins until they’re married to the man that they’re going to live with forever.
Mr. Ross: You’re aware another one of your members of your congregation has been charged with a serious criminal charge.
Overseer: Oh yeah, I’m aware that he’s been charged.
Mr. Ross: What’s that all about?
Overseer: You’d have to ask my attorney about that? [laughing]
Mr. Ross: Is there anything to that? That a young girl would be used for sex?
Overseer: I think all of that’s going to be brought out in court and I’m--
Mr. Ross: But you, you said--
Overseer:I’m not going to talk about it at this time.
Mr. Ross: That doesn’t happen here.
Overseer: No, it does not. No. It would--not--If it happened, it would be because somebody did not control himself and somebody did not live by the Laws of Yahweh that I teach.
Mr. Ross: Not under your approval?
Overseer: Not under my approval, no. And I have never molested a child. I can guarantee you that.
Mr. Ross: Has anybody ever--
Overseer:Never. I’ve never had any desire to molest a child.
Mr. Ross: Has any young female come to you and complained?
Overseer:No. I think CPS checked a bunch of the females that--
Mr. Ross: Right.
Overseer: --and found these are false allegations already.
Mr. Ross: You’re aware of the allegations at other religious facilities here in Texas. They’re quite serious.
Overseer: I’ve seen what the news said.
Mr. Ross: Right.
Overseer: Yeah
Mr. Ross: But you’ve had--
Overseer: But I’ve read both ways now, you know. Some, some say they broke the laws themselves, but the statistics on teenagers being molested, even the statistics showing the teenagers and the babies they’re having, I think you ought to bring that out on your show maybe. Because every four hours a--I’m going by memory, but I believe it’s every four hours a--a fifteen, a fourteen year old becomes pregnant. Every two and a half hours a fifteen year old becomes pregnant. I’m talking about teenage girls. [laughing] I think it’s one every hour, a seventeen-year, a sixteen-year-old becomes pregnant and every fifteen minutes or something like that a seventeen-year-old becomes pregnant and all of these are unmarried. The world right now has become so evil that we’re killing, we’re actually murdering 46 million babies--it’s over that now--46 million babies a year, because we’re not teaching. My comrades, [laughing] the preachers that I know will not teach against fornication and adultery. They won’t even teach against sodomy and bestiality now. They avoid it. We’re the only ones on earth that I know of that’s even fighting this thing, but, but right now we’re killing--we’ve got our society to where our teenagers are actually thinking it’s righteous to go out here and commit fornication, adultery and so forth.
Mr. Ross: Should a teenage girl…
Overseer: What?
Mr. Ross: Should a teenage girl be able to be married?
Overseer: Are you asking me Scriptural language now or the laws of the land?
Mr. Ross: Laws…
Overseer:I’m telling you I, I keep the laws of the land.
Mr. Ross: I know, under the Laws of Yahweh?
Overseer:The laws of--the laws of the land say they can’t get married until they’re seventeen years old, I believe.
Mr. Ross: Right.
Overseer: I think that’s right.
Mr. Ross: And the Laws of Yahweh?
Overseer:The Laws of Yahweh doesn’t put a limit on it, but it’s left up to the parent; which is supposed to be guiding his child, him and the Priest, supposed to be guiding the child and making sure that the child is old enough and wise enough to handle a marriage. That’s not done anymore either--counseling.
Mr. Ross: All right, thirteen or fourteen years old would be okay under the Laws of Yahweh--
Overseer: Ah.
Mr. Ross: --for a girl to be married?
Overseer: I’m trying to think of, I’m trying to think of any Laws that would cover that offhand. What I told you is the way that it goes. A--
Mr. Ross: Anything goes if the parents say it is okay?
Overseer: Well the parents, the parents if they’re following Yahweh’s Laws, they will guide their daughters into seeking a Righteous husband, a Righteous head. Now they will guide that--they will guide the male, too, into treating a wife, choosing a--choosing a wife and choosing a wife that is wise and--and will bring him honor. All of those things are taught in the Scriptures.
Mr. Ross: There have been other conflicts that we’ve talked about between the laws of the land and the Laws of Yahweh. And on this issue, are there conflicts? Do you think--
Overseer: Oh, no.
Mr. Ross: --it should be appropriate for a girl who’s fourteen--
Overseer: I see no reason in--in women waiting until seventeen or twenty-one or twenty-three or whatever, you know. In fact, we recommend that they don’t, don’t get married at this time. But if--if they’re--if they are of age and can get a marriage license, we don’t stop them. We don’t forbid it, but we recommend that they do not.
Mr. Ross: Do they need your approval?
Overseer:No. My approval? No, no. In fact, most of the time I don’t even know it when they get married.
Mr. Ross: Do you officiate at the ceremonies?
Overseer:I don’t remember ever--ever officiating at a marriage ceremony except one and I believe that was my daughter. That’s the only marriage ceremony I ever, and I gave her away to a man…
Mr. Ross: And you--
Overseer: --in the ceremony.
Mr. Ross: And you were the minister at the ceremony as well? You were the religious figure?
Overseer: No, no, some, some other preacher married them.
Mr. Ross: Uh huh.
Overseer: Yes.
Mr. Ross: But you see what my point is. The--the question’s raised about--
Overseer: I would not allow my daughter or if it was my, if I had control of, you know my children--
Mr. Ross: Right. Right.
Overseer: I would not allow them to get married until they were seventeen.
Mr. Ross: Seventeen?
Overseer: I don’t want them breaking the laws of the land.
Mr. Ross: And does that happen here at all? Have there been teenage marriage?
Overseer: Not that I’m aware of, not that I’m aware of. I don’t know of anyone that’s got married. I know of some, some that wanted to, but I know they were forbidden to do so.
Mr. Ross: What is a bride price? What is that?
Overseer: That’s a price that you pay to Yahweh, like in Proverbs, that shows that you--you contribute to Yahweh’s Work in thanksgiving. I think most of the churches have that. It’s an offering for that wife, for that woman.
Mr. Ross: But you set a price?
Overseer: I don’t, no.
Mr. Ross: Somebody does?
Overseer: That’s normally left up to the father and whatever the husband thinks that they’re worth and their advice of the Priest, of course.
Mr. Ross: You’ve--you’ve seen this, one of these? [shows Overseer a paper]
Overseer: I don’t know if I’ve ever seen this thing or not.
Mr. Ross: Do you know what that is? Declaration of--
Overseer: It says “Declaration of Bride Price and vow to pay it.” I didn’t put this out, but I think this is the first time I’ve seen it in fact.
Mr. Ross: Part of, part of your church though.
Overseer: But it looks okay. I mean, I don’t see anything wrong with it. See the vow to Yahweh, the vow to Yahweh.
Mr. Ross: You have to--you have to pay a price to marry, to marry the girl?
Overseer: Well, they, they make an offering. They make an offering for--
Mr. Ross: Isn’t that simply selling off the women?
Overseer: What’s that?
Mr. Ross: Are you selling off the woman?
Overseer:Oh no, it’s not a sale. Every Hebrew marriage is performed on the same, same way. The--like the--Yaaqob, he worked seven years for Leah, remember? And then he turned around and worked seven years for her sister, remember? That was his bride’s price to the father.
Mr. Ross: Is that appropriate, do you think? To set a price?
Overseer: I see nothing wrong with it. It’s biblical to make an offering to Yahweh or toward, a thanksgiving offering.
Mr. Ross: For the bride?
Overseer: For, for a bride, yeah.
Mr. Ross: And who--
Overseer: And if it was one dollar, two dollars or whatever; if you make an offering and put it in the offering box for a--no, I see nothing wrong with it at all.
Mr. Ross: And how much is the price usually?
Overseer:It would, I suppose it would be depending on how bad he wanted the woman and how bad his father wanted to keep her.
Mr. Ross: And who set that price?
Overseer: I, I just told you now. The--
Mr. Ross: The money goes?
Overseer: The father, under the guidance of the Priest, would set that.
Mr. Ross: Have you done that?
Overseer: No.
Mr. Ross: But your Priests do that?
Overseer: No, I, I asked everyone to show their thanksgiving through, you know, not just their mouth but their actions.
Mr. Ross: Some--some have said--
Overseer: Tithes, tithes and offerings; pay your vows, your tithes and offerings, that’s what the Scripture teaches. That’s what every church teaches. I don’t know of any church that doesn’t teach this.
Mr. Ross: Nothing about this troubles you?
Overseer: No, why should it? It’s not like you got a person up for auction. It’s not like you’re selling a person.
Mr. Ross: It’s not?
Overseer: No, it’s like asking someone to show thanksgiving to Yahweh for your virtuous bride.
Mr. Ross: Okay. We changed tapes. So you were just saying you see nothing wrong with something you call a tithe.
Overseer:The what now?
Mr. Ross: For the bride.
Overseer:Bride’s price is spoken of throughout the Holy Scriptures. It’s not like your selling a bride or selling a person.
Mr. Ross: It does seem that way though, doesn’t it?
Overseer: What’s that?
Mr. Ross: You call it the bride price?
Overseer: Bride’s price, yes.
Mr. Ross: Sounds like something’s for sale.
Overseer: Proverbs said, you know, to find a virtuous woman is like finding silver or gold, you know. She’s worth her weight in gold. But the bride’s price in the Scripture is considered an offering like a thanksgiving offering, showing your appreciation to Yahweh. If a person was poor, it could be a dollar. If it was, if he was rich, I guess it could run into millions if he--if that’s what he wanted to give. But it, there’s no set bride’s price for a woman that I know of in the Scriptures but then we don’t set bride’s prices.
Mr. Ross: Who does? Who sets the price?
Overseer: We--we don’t. I don’t know, I don’t know. It’s, it would be dependent on the father who owned the girl. You know, the girl is his, in the Scriptures, the girl belongs to the father and mother.
Mr. Ross: He owns the girl?
Overseer: The child that is born to that family, that husband and that wife is responsible to bring that child up in the Laws of Yahweh. I’m telling you what the Scriptures say.
Mr. Ross: Does it say they own the child?
Overseer: Yeah.
Mr. Ross: They own the child?
Overseer: They give that child away to the husband. Now that’s the way the--the-it--that’s the way the Scripture teaches.
Mr. Ross: Do you, do you mean to say they own the child or is that a misspoke?
Overseer: I think I made it clear, the child belongs to the father and, and if somebody kidnapped that child, they’d be stealing that child from the father, right and the mother.
Mr. Ross: Until what age?
Overseer: Until he gives that child away to the husband.
Mr. Ross: And then who owns--
Overseer: That’s what takes place in a wedding.
Mr. Ross: And who owns her then?
Overseer: The husband. The--the father brings the, marches, in every wedding I know of, in every church he marches the daughter down the hall, down the aisle--
Mr. Ross: Right.
Overseer: --and gives that--gives that daughter to the husband, at which time they become one flesh. They become one, remember?
Mr. Ross: Does the husband then own the wife?
Overseer: They are one. They become one with each other. Now this is Yahweh’s Way. Now try to understand this. In Deuteronomy 7:25, it says you’ve got to teach these Laws diligently to your children when you go to bed, when you rise up, when you walk by the way. So you’re training your son to be a Righteous father, husband and so forth, okay? Now, you want that son to marry a Righteous wife. Now, you wouldn’t want him to go out like the prodigal son did and go to the whorehouses to marry a wife. So, naturally you want to guide that son to marry a virtuous wife. Now, the men who’s raising the daughters, they’re responsible for the same thing, to teach these Laws of Yahweh so that that girl will be a virgin when she is married, when she is given to that man in marriage, you got that?
Mr. Ross: I’m with you.
Overseer: Okay, okay, now they two then, if, if both of them have been raised properly, according to the Laws of Yahweh and they both agree on the Laws, they can become one. And that wife will show honor to that husband all the days of his life and he will show honor to her too.
Mr. Ross: But is she required to--
Overseer: Because he will love her all the days of his life.
Mr. Ross: And she--
Overseer: That’s the way it’s got to be.
Mr. Ross: And she’s required to be obedient to him.
Overseer: In the Laws of Yahweh. You see, they’ve both been brought up in the Law.
Mr. Ross: Right.
Overseer: And if they agree, if both of them are in agreement, then they’re permitted to get married by Yahweh himself. Yahweh is the One Who performs the marriage, you know.
Mr. Ross: Yeah, but we’re talking--
Overseer: You go to Him and ask Him to perform the marriage.
Mr. Ross: I understand.
Overseer: That’s what every church, every religion teaches about marriage that I know of.
Mr. Ross: But you heard my other question? My other question is: is we talked to some of the married couples here. There is a sense that the wife is obedient to the husband.
Overseer: Do you want me to read it to you?
Mr. Ross: No, but is that correct? That is--
Overseer: Let me read it, read what the Inspired Apostle said. He says, he says wives…This is Chapter 5 of Ephesians, New Testament, 5 of Ephesians. This is the King James Version, every version. Ephesians 5:17, I mean 21. Submit yourselves to one another in Reverence to Yahweh. Submit yourselves, you’re talking about a man and a wife. Submit yourselves to one another in Reverence to Yahweh, in reverence to His Laws. Now if you do this, wives will submit to their own husband just as to the Messiah. He’s teaching her the Laws. They’re both in agreement in Reverence to Yahweh. For the husband is head of the wife just as the Messiah is Head of the Called Out Ones and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the Called Out Ones are subject to the Messiah, so wives… See you’re in--in--you’re submitting yourselves to one another here, the wife and the husband are submitting to one another. And it says, Husbands, love your wives just as the Messiah loved you. See anything wrong with that?
Mr. Ross: No, but you, you know that there are many women in America who do not see that as a--
Overseer: I know that ninety-nine percent according to the statistics, of the women, women in America don’t follow these Laws.
Mr. Ross: But the idea that the wife is obedient, that she submits to the husband.
Overseer: No, the idea that they’re both raised in The House of Yahweh
Mr. Ross: I know, I understand.
Overseer: And they submit their selves to one another.
Mr. Ross: And then the next set there.
Overseer: See, you’re leaving out part of it.
Mr. Ross: Well, I’m picking up part of it that you don’t want to talk about. Why not talk about that? Isn’t that fair? Don’t you preach that?
Overseer: You’ve got to, you’ve got to raise your children according to the Laws.
Mr. Ross: But is it--
Overseer: Now if one of them is breaking the Law, let you who is without sin first cast the stone.
Mr. Ross: That wouldn’t be me, but let me--let’s talk about husbands and wives though. There is--someone’s over the other under Yahweh.
Overseer: No.
Mr. Ross: No?
Overseer: You submit to one another. Don’t you see? You’re both agreeing to follow the Laws.
Mr. Ross: Okay.
Overseer: Now if the husband, the husband has a great part to play because he’s shown in the Scriptures that he’s got to be a protector of his family.
Mr. Ross: He has the final word?
Overseer: Yes, he, he has the--he has the final word, no, Yahweh has the final word. [laughing] Yahweh has--Yahweh is the final Judge of whether you’ve performed this according to His Laws or not.
Mr. Ross: What’s your dress code for women?
Overseer: Dress code for women…
Mr. Ross: How should they…
Overseer: The Scriptures say for the women to dress modestly. I don’t think that women should play the part of the Hollywood gods and expose their bodies to create lust in men. I don’t think you’d want your wife to do that, right, or your daughter? I don’t think any man would. I don’t think a Righteous mother would want her daughter to being exposing her breast and other parts of her body, to put it on for sale out here for men.
Mr. Ross: We’re not talking about nudity. How about just clothing style?
Overseer: That’s what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the clothing that they’re wearing showing parts of their body to make men lust after them.
Mr. Ross: When you see that on the streets of Abilene, what do you think?
Overseer: I wouldn’t want my daughters, I don’t want my daughters exposing their selves like this to make men lust after them. I don’t think any father would. I think society has come down over the years to the point to where, you know, we go along with it. But I don’t think Righteous men and women anywhere agree with this--these dress codes that are being put forth in Hollywood.
Mr. Ross: You know one of your biggest critics and a vocal one is your former wife.
Overseer: Okay.
Mr. Ross: What happened there?
Overseer: She told me one time; this is words out of her mouth. She said, “I can see that you’re overcoming.” She said, “I can see that you’re studying the Laws and you’re following the Laws and you’re overcoming.” And she said, “I can’t do it; I can’t overcome.” My words to her was, you know, set your mind to it and--and--and really strive to do so, because, you know, it’s your Eternal Life you’re dealing with. I never would force her to do Righteousness. You know, she set her own pace and--
Mr. Ross: You think she’s speaking out now, because she couldn’t be Righteous?
Overseer: That was the words out of her mouth. I wouldn’t judge her at all.
Mr. Ross: Does it hurt you to have her speak about you and this church?
Overseer: It hurts me when anyone leaves The House of Yahweh. I know their, their life is at stake, but Yahweh is their Judge, not me. I’ve done my part by teaching the Laws of Yahweh.
Mr. Ross: And as to--
Overseer: And I’m not going to talk bad about my wife, but I’ll tell you what she said. “I can’t overcome,” she said.
Mr. Ross: And to her criticism as to the way you deal with women?
Overseer: I wouldn’t know what she’s talking about there. The way I deal with women, I teach them the Laws of Yahweh. They’re all taught right here in this House. My life is a open book for anyone that wants to read it. I don’t teach one thing and live another. I live by the Laws of Yahweh.
Mr. Ross: Finally, let me ask you, prosecutors have alleged that you have a bunch of weapons here and that you might have persuaded your followers to fight to the death to protect you, to protect the church. You’ve asked them, would you die.
Overseer: You know, I said a long time ago that I can’t fight Satan and do the Work of Yahweh. And to me, he who lives by the sword dies by the sword. I’ve never seen any wars, I’m like my dad, I’ve never seen any wars won. I’ve seen a lot of wars in my lifetime but I’ve never seen anything won by retaliation. I’m more of the--like the Savior, He Who says turn the other cheek; don’t retaliate. He never went to war. He said, “Turn the other cheek. If they strike you on one side, turn the other cheek,” and that’s what I practice.
My wife saw that and she spoke, she said, “I can see you’re overcoming”. I wasn’t always following the Laws of Yahweh in my life. I told you, I was a terrible person. But I have come out of that and I’m teaching my children, I’m teaching everyone in the House of Yahweh, you know, the strict Laws of Yahweh in their life. There’s nothing better.
Mr. Ross: Do you have weapons here?
Overseer: I think I got a bb gun in my house. It was given to me. [laughing] I don’t know…
Mr. Ross: If-, seriously…
Overseer: I know our people, some of our people are into hunting, I know that.
Mr. Ross: If the authorities come would they fight back, try to keep them out?
Overseer: No. No. In fact, in fact, I think we would walk out and meet them if they came. When we were threatened back when David Koresh was, you know, wiped out…
Mr. Ross: Right.
Overseer: …We talked about it then because we thought it might be us, you know. And in fact, some of the police officers called me and told me about it, and we called the FBI and told them to come out here and search the land. I’d show them over every inch of it, bring your Geiger counters, we’re not hiding anything like they’re saying we’re doing. And the lawyer called the FBI, he called me back and said you call this man. I called him, I said you don’t even have to tell me, just, just come out and tell the lawyer and he’ll meet you at the gate and he told him he would, and said then we’ll call Yisrayl and have him come on out. But they could go over any place they want to. We don’t--we don’t deal in things like that. We deal in the Holy Scriptures.
Mr. Ross: Did you ask your members if they would die for the cause?
Overseer: I told them they’d have to be faithful until death. Now that don’t--that doesn’t mean, you know, that’s a far cry--the Savior Himself says it. “Be faithful until death and I’ll give you a crown of life.” But that’s not committing suicide. It’s not even advocating suicide. It’s being faithful to the Laws of Yahweh. And yes, I would, I’m not going to resist man, if--
Mr. Ross: Were you asking them would they commit suicide when you said that?
Overseer: Heavens no. I said you must be faithful unto death. That’s the words of the Savior.
Mr. Ross: You said, you asked them, “would you die” if you’re forced out of your House.
Overseer: I said that I would rather die than to leave The House of Yahweh.
Mr. Ross: And did you ask them if they would? Was that a suggestion to them that they would if something happened here?
Overseer: No, it means they’ve got to be faithful to the Laws of Yahweh until death. They can’t be turning and retaliating against mankind and trying to kill mankind. You know, that’s nothing better than the world.
Mr. Ross: Right, but that sermon’s being described by law enforcement authorities as…
Overseer: That’s because they want to twist it to mean what they want it to mean.
Mr. Ross: What did you mean?
Overseer: I meant the same thing the Savior said. “Be faithful to the Laws of Yahweh unto death and I will give you a crown of life.” That’s what He said.
Mr. Ross: And you’d rather die than to be…
Overseer: I’d rather die than to have to leave The House of Yahweh.
Mr. Ross: Physically leave it or metaphysically?
Overseer: Well, I don’t, you know, when they try to force you to change your religion, you know, and they do this in some countries. If I couldn’t worship Yahweh, I wouldn’t want to live. I don’t want any part of this world. It’s too wicked. I don’t want fornication, adultery, bestiality, sodomy in my life. I don’t want wars and fighting in my life. If I can’t have Yahweh’s Laws and the liberty to preach them, I’m kind of like the patriot that said, “give me liberty or give me death,” you know. I want--I want to be able to teach the Laws of Yahweh. That’s all I want to do. I don’t want to hurt anybody. Even when I was on the police department, I told them I will never hurt anyone with this gun. I’ll wear it but I won’t hurt anyone, and I didn’t.
Mr. Ross: And what do you imagine for your future? You’re now 73 years old? How many years do you have left preaching?
Overseer: Till the Kingdom comes. [laughing] If Yahweh chooses to let me die, that’s fine. I know I’ll be resurrected by the other Priests. But--but I don’t want to be taken out of this House. I don’t want anybody to try to force me to eat pork like they did the Jews, like they did my ancestors in Europe. If they want to put me in a gas chamber that’s fine, if Yahweh let’s them do it. But I’m still gonna be faithful to the Laws till the gas kills me. And that’s what I meant.
Mr. Ross: Thank you very much.
Overseer: Okay.
Mr. Ross: I understand that. Appreciate it very much.
Overseer: Praise Yahweh.